A Mill, Dowry & Lost Papers of Dunham Massey Page 2 of 5  / Press for 3

JOINING THE DOTS: - ANCIENT LAND OF TATTON & MASSEY - part 1 of 3.

Tatton land "Northsake", the dowry of Cicely de Massey, the lost papers of Dunham Massey

During the earliest time of Henry 3^rd 1216- 1272, there are very few muniments to be found pre 1276 and this can make it difficult to establish how the information fits with events, while those post 1276 usually have a recognisable date & can be easily identified. However, on an undated charter, when there are several events that occur at around the same period of time, it should in theory be easier to see how they fit into a pattern, like joining the dots on a picture to see the full image. This is the case below where I believe there is sufficient evidence for a probable marriage between Cicely de Massey (grand daughter of the 3rd Baron Massey) & Roger de Tatton, (See TW/2 Tatton Muniments). This union would naturally lead to & future fee tail for their offspring (Hamon born. c.1230) who would be provided with a charter of land for the manor of Kenworthy from which he would later take his surname in the early tradition of taking the place name of his fiefdom. This marriage would have been a precedent years later for the marriage between Alice de Massey and Robert de Tatton, wherein, it is mentioned, that according to the Tatton of Wythenshaw pedigree, Alice was the wife of Robert de Tatton 44 Edw 3^rd (1371). (See previous page which confirms a marriage in the Wythenshaw pedigree between Robert de Tatton (2nd) & Alice de Massey c.1349). So, during Henry 3^rd around the early 1230’s the importance of ancient Kenworthy would emerge from the mist. This includes 1) A modern-day discovery of the meaning of the term  “Northsake”, bringing to light an area of land in Kenworthy that belonged to the Tattons in c.1230 and 2) A grant for the transfer of land ownership of Kenworthy from the Tatton & Massey union, in fee tail, during Henry 3^rd c. 1216-1230 & prior to the law of “Quia Emptores”, in 1290.

1). “Northsake”: -  Alan de Tatton c.1230 held land in a place called “Northsake”. Henry 3rd (vol 3 p605).

Ormerod states, by c.1230, Alan, or officially Alanus filius de Alani de Tatton, (son of Alan de Tatton d.1196),  "held land in a place called “Northsake” (vol 3 p605), but whether in this neighbourhood does not appear",  and  "but the connecting link has not been recovered"  and "the feudal and later title presenting none of these difficulties so often found where the heirship turns upon abstruse points of law arising out of a once extremely complicated law of real property ".  Omerod's apparent dilemma on identifying "Northsake" is because he assumes this area is a place name. Ormerod can also be quoted as saying  “The earliest Barons of Dunham had a paramount interest in Tatton, which makes it still more probable that some part of the original Tatton estate lay in Northenden”.  So, the Tattons held land in   “Northsake”, but Ormerod was unable to locate it as a place! This is because the name is not a place name, but would have been known in ancient times as where a manorial lord held feudal (not legal) rights. These rights would relate to the authoritative rights over control of a Mill, specifically Kenworthy in Northenden. A study of the Domesday book has confirmed that even before Domesday, the rights of a lord over an estate were expressed by the words  soca (Soke)  and  saca (Sake) or "soca et saca". North would certainly indicate Northenden (known as Northern to the locals) & “Sake” is an ancient spelling of the word  “sooac” which indicates the "place where a feudal right was exercised", for example, grinding corn in a Mill within the manor. (From “A provincial glossary: With a collection of Local Proverbs and Popular Superstitions, 1787. By Francis Grose). In c.1230, this place  “Northsake” is logically the location of the ancient Mill of Kenworthy & surrounding lands on the banks of the river Mersey. The medieval term  “sooac” has various spellings, but is now written as  “Soke” & described as,  “soke or suit of mill, as the right”. An excellent modern-day description of medieval milling & the ancient term  “Soke” can be found in the website “Mills Archive” within an article entitled “Medieval Mills & Milling” dated September 6^th 2016 by Martin & Sue Watts. A request was subsequently sent to the Cheshire Archives to check the word  “Northsake” and in their reply they stated they were unable to locate any reference to this place name in the Cheshire records or in the place names of the Cheshire book by John McNeal Dodgson. They suggested the explanation I had provided was plausible.  GL

Ormerod also mentions the Mill at Kenworthy in 1296 as part of a law suit by Cecily widow of Henry de Barlowe, (Barlowe was a place just across the Mersey on the Lancaster side), (vol 3 p605). There is also mention of the Mill in a deed in 1311 (Wythenshaw history & Heritage). The location & use of the Mill can now be understood as representing the term “Northsake” & we see why Ormerod “inadvertently” assumed it was a place. (vol 3 p611). The terms  soca (Soke) and saca (Sake) are frequently found in the Domesday Book. By the 11th century, possession of soke & sake implied more than jurisdiction powers of a lord and covered the right to a number of dues and services, in money, and in kind, from the tenants on the land over which soke and sake was exercised. Holders of soke & sake could grant parts of their property to tenants, for example, a miller operating a Mill, but he or she would still be answerable to the  feudal right of the lord of the Manor who controlled the land. A distinction between the two words in Domesday suggests that the specific rights of soke represented the jurisdictional powers over the area  where the Mill was built & where the lord of the manor maintained his authority over all the surrounding land nearby, particularly here in the case mentioned above, as the ancient water Mill at Kenworthy was close to the crossing point of the river Mersey over which trade, including the important transfer of salt from the salt mines, passed between Manchester & Chester. The salt mines were owned by Sir William de Baguley who was knighted by Edw 1st. Baguley was very close also to Wythenshaw and about 1.5 miles SW as the crow flies from Kenworthy which is on the boundary with the river Mersey & the crossing point for the trade route of salt. It would appear likely the two families would have been involved in officiating with the movement of salt, at least during the lifetime of Hamon de Kenworthy. Evidence of a possible working relationship is in a Bond dated 1313 wherein Hamon de Kenworthy agrees a bond to Sir William de Baguley for 40 shillings. So, we can see that the location of Kenworthy, was a vital part of the town of Northenden, which had passed into the hands of Tattons by c.1230.

THE NEXT 6 PARAGRAPHS IN PART 2 BELOW PROVIDES EVIDENTIAL PROOF THAT CICELY DE MASSEY'S "NORDEN" IS  NORTHENDEN. GL.
2) "CICELY'S DOWRY OF NORDEN" :  From the County Palatine & History of Chester by George Ormerod, revised by Thomas Helsby). (vol 1 p520/521)

“Sibil, a daughter of the 3rd Baron Hamon de Massey, whom gave to Cicely her niece, daughter of John de Massey her brother, half of the town of Norden”. Henry 3rd

The name, spelling & ownership of the town of Norden is important as it does not exist in the Domesday book!

11th-12th cent. Naden/Norden, part of the Early Seat of Rochdale. Held by Roger de Poitou, followed by John de Lascy (b. John Fitz  Richard) Baron of Halton.

In the Domesday book of Lancashire in 1086, the name Recedham was vested in the Lordship of Roger de Poitou from 1086 to 1102 at which point he had his lands confiscated.  The lands entitled  Craven  (lands in the north of England) were passed to Robert de Romille, however, the remaining lands, including Rochdale were vested in the lordship of John de Lascy. In 1178 he was Constable of Chester & founded the monastery of Stanlawe & held the manor of Rochdale!

https://www.rmnf.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/chapter-i-general-history-pages1-64.pdf   - Page 16.

Rochdale formed part of the Salford 100 & was included in the records for Cheshire, but later the area became a subdivision of the County Palatine of Lancaster (or Lancashire) on its creation in 1182. However, long before that, in 1102, Roger de Poitou or Poitevin & his brothers were part of a failed rebellion against Henry 1st of England and although staying loyal to Rufus (King William 2nd), he had his lands in Rochdale confiscated, which were passed to John De Lascy,  so there is no evidence that Rochdale or any smaller villages such as Nadin/Norden at this time were ever passed to the Baron Masseys!  Records above do show however, this area was under the Lordship of John de Lascy in 1178 (b. John Fitz Richard),  so the spelling of Norden in the dowry of Cicely around c.1230 or before, can only be coincidental with the name of Naden in 1161 or Norden from 1861.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_fitz_Richard After the death of his father in 1163 John inherited his Barony of Halton and the Office of Constable of Chester, whereupon he became the chief official of Hugh de Kevelioc, 5th Earl of Chester. After the death of Hugh in 1181 he served in the same capacity for his heir Ranulf de Blondeville, 6th Earl of Chester. In 1166 he paid a fee of 1,000 marks to obtain his mother's possessions, including the former de Lacy estates. After 1172 he founded   Stanlow Abbey in Cheshire, of the Cistercian order, and a hospital in Castle Donington.[4] Earl Hugh granted him lands in Antrobus, Cheshire and in 1178 confirmed John's donation of Little Stanney to Stanlow Abbey, and a little later he gave the monks the duty to pay in Chester.

Naden 12th cent Rochdale

There is a local historical timeline for Norden which mentions a small area called Naden in 1161 as part of Rochdale, which appears to be the same place with a little brook of the same name running through the valley. Naden is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning "below". So, we find Naden is the name of a valley in what was the Spotland township in the Rochdale parish. Naden was first recorded in 1107, it was also mentioned in the Coucher Book of Whalley Abbey in the 13thC.  Naden (“Nauden” as it was in medieval times) was mentioned in a grant to Stanlaw Abbey (the monks later moved to Whalley). The Abbey of St. Mary at Stanlaw (or Stanlow as it has been posthumously known since a Victorian cartographical error),  was a Cistercian foundation situated on Stanlaw - now Stanlow Point, on the banks of the River Mersey in the Wirral Peninsula, Cheshire. The abbey was founded in 1178 by John fitz Richard, Baron of Halton and Hereditary  Constable of Chester, as a daughter abbey of Combermere Abbey.^[1] In August 1277, King Edward I of England stayed there for three nights.

Naden 13th cent - manor of Spotland- Rochdale

A general history of Spotland with a footnote (6) about Naden can be found in the Victoria County History of Lancashire. According to this history (Victoria County History), land was granted to Gilbert de Notton when he married Margery, the daughter of Hugh de Elland.  “It gave a name to the immediate holders. Maud widow of Thomas de Naden claimed dower in a messuage and land in Wolstenholme in 1277 against Roger son of Robert de Naden". This charter also mentions Naden Brook and is a transcript from Volume III of the Coucher Book of Whalley Abbey, published by the Chetham Society in the 19th. Century.  A history of the Parish of Rochdale also confirms the following: - "Hugh de Eland (the son of Hugh) was succeeded by his son, Hugh de Eland, who was living about the middle of the Thirteenth Century; he had issue Hugh de Eland, who had two children-John de Eland (of whom presently) and Margery, who married Gilbert de Notton, receiving as her marriage portion certain lands in Naden, in Spotland". 

Naden-Norden-Rochdale -Change of name 19th cent 

Searches have revealed there is in modern times a small village named Norden, within the wider township of Rochdale. Although the village was originally called Naden, it was renamed Norden in 1861 after the village Church of St. Pauls of the same name. It seems the locals decided on the nod of the then lord of the manor Thomas Dearden that the old name of Naden, should instead be changed to Norden. Also, in 1861 the area known as Black Pits was also named Norden. Clearly a name preferred to St Paul’s Black Pits. The name could have been adapted from Naden or from the Old English, Noedre Dene which translates as Snake Valley. There seems to be no other reason to change the ancient name of Naden which had existed since 1107. 

Norton- Nortune c.1134

A search has also revealed a place called Norton or Nortune in the Domesday book of Cheshire, which in 1134 was part of the barony of Halton under the 3rd baron William Fitz William, so is not part of the Massey holdings. 

Note: - The names of landowners mentioned above for the place of Naden/Norden from the 11th -19th century confirms that these places are not the same location as the place name Norden which features in the dowry of Cicely, granddaughter of the 3rd Baron de Massey!   GL

SUMMING UP CONCLUSION:

Cicely de Massey's Dowry of Norden can only logically be Northenden!

The only other town found local to Dunham Massey in similarity of name is the township of  "Northenden", (3 syllables), which had been vested by Ranulfus with the Barons Massey by Domesday in 1086, so it can be assumed this is the place mentioned, which the locals call  "Northern", (two syllables rather than 3) which is not dissimilar phonetically to "Norden"   found in Cicely's dowry received from her Aunt Sibil daughter of the 3rd baron de Massey. The other half of  Northenden not held by Sibil/Cicely; ie the “Church of Northenden & feudal land rights” was held by the Abbey of St. Werburgh following a grant by Ranulfus in 1119 after the conquest. Interestingly, Northenden appears in the Domesday book of Lancashire in 1086, despite being bounded by the River Mersey, which separates it from Lancashire. (vol 3 p604). In Leycester’s history of the Barons of Dunham Massey, he neatly lists each of the six Barons named Hamon de Massey along with the name of their spouse & names their issue or offspring!   The first name would be the heir, called Hamon, then any sons & daughters. As far as the 3^rd Baron is concerned, he was married to Agatha de Theray and had a son and heir Hamon, Robert (Bowden), John, Agnes (half of Bollington in free marriage), Sibil (gave to Cicely her niece half the town of Norden), Cicely (all the land in Alrctunstall and Sunderland), and another not mentioned (possibly Isabelle), but who had married, also Agatha who married.

3). THE LOST PAPERS OF DUNHAM MASSEY

At least 2 generations/2 baronies are missing in the 12th century - The dates do not add up!   GL

It's clear from many sources that the birth date of the 3rd baron and his issue (children) is unknown, however a date can be estimated from the recorded events by Peter Leycester. It is written, the baron died around  "sub initio" (meaning "starting from") Henry 3rd c.1216 (vol 1 p521). In 1150 he founded the Priory of Birkenhead in the Wirral. So, we can work out it is 66 years from the founding of the priory until his death. Before that, he had helped raise a minimum of 8 children, Hamon, Robert, John, Agnes, Sibil, Cicely, another daughter (name not mentioned) & Agnes. This would have taken an unlikely minimum of 8 years, so arguably taking us back earlier from 1150 to 1142. If the baron started his family early, say at 16, then it is possible he may have been born around c.1125/6, which some genealogical websites surmise, living until 91. However, it is stated in the narrative of the descent of the barony, that the 3rd baron's grandson Hamon de Massey 5th gave the advowson of Bowdon parish church to the priory in 1278. This is a difference of   153 years from the advowson of Bowden in 1278, back to his grandfather's birth in c1125. At this time in history noble families married off their children when they were young to ensure an early continuity of heirs, since war, disease & sickness was always a threat to life. A point has been made within the Grey (Stamford) of Dunham papers EGR,"According to Sir Peter Leycester, between the 1080s and 1340s the barony passed by linear descent through six generations of Masseys, each named Hamo. However, this would imply an improbably long span between each generation and at least one, if not two, generations may have gone unnoticed in the twelfth century",   and  "There is little medieval material, other than title deeds and a handful of manorial accounts, surveys and court rolls. No doubt the chequered history of the barony in the hundred years prior to its inheritance by Robert Booth can account for such losses. More surprising perhaps is the paucity of material relating to the Booth family, a mere sixteen boxes, with almost no records relating to their political activities either locally or nationally. Particular reasons for the poor survival rate may be surmised, over and above the customary hazards to archives from fire, water, vermin, poor storage conditions and accidental loss",   and  "Archival History, very little is known about the custodial history of the archives from Dunham Massey prior to 1666, when Sir Peter Leycester inspected the muniments at the Hall. Several documents are cited in his Antiquities (Ormerod, vol. 1, pp. 520-6). Evidence of the rather casual record-keeping practices of Henry Booth (1651-1694), 1st Earl of Warrington, is contained in the papers relating to the dispute over his will, the validity of which was disputed by his son George Booth, 2nd Earl of Warrington: There stood on the Floor in a corner of his closet [elsewhere called the Evidence Closet] a large old Deal Box with a broken Lid without Lock or Key to it, which Seem'd to be placed there purely for a Receptacle for cast-away papers, being full of old useless dusty papers confusedly tumbled together, it being his common practice, when he found no further use for a paper, to throw it carelessly away, without further thought of it, or considering whether needful to destroy it. (see EGR3/6/2/1/6)"

And we also know from Helsby's comment,  "The dates given by Leycester and the few descents, stretching over a period of upwards of two centuries, renders the hypothesis far from improbable".   (Additional notes at the foot of vol 2 p367).   With the above in mind and the admission from a number of sources of many gaps in the history of the barony and the knowledge that some of the Chester Domesday rolls were incomplete with sections missing from rolls, it is not at all unreasonable to assume the dates of events cannot be fully trusted, particularly as the Domesday roll of Chester is believed to have been stolen from Chester Castle. (see pg. 1). So, it is impossible to conjecture with any accuracy or positivity the exact dates of birth of any of the barons or their issue (children) up to the end of the 12th century, let alone know  which generation of Hamon de Massey was responsible for whatever has been ascribed to them, for example, Birkenhead or Bowden & perhaps many more other events which have not been entered into the history of the barony, or have been lost or damaged beyond recognition over time.  GL